Дорогие гости, перенос форума Marstersvers завершен. Мы рады приветствовать вас на новом ресурсе!)))). Вся первичная информация об этом форуме находится здесь
1. Почему хронология пятого сезона сдвинута ровно на четыре месяца назад?
а) сценаристам необходимо, чтобы события финала происходили в январе 2004 (то есть через 8 месяцев после Chosen) и) это просто оплошность вроде "потерянного месяца" в середине 7 сезона "Баффи"
2. Почему к матери Лайлы вернулась память сразу же после того как Уэс убил отца?
а) их души встретились на высшем уровне бытия, и теперь мама Лайлы вернулась с посланием от Роджера Уиндэма-Прайса к Уэсли или ко всей Банде Клыка б) просто совпадение
3. Почему амулет и материализующее волшебство были посланы по почте?
а) бюджетные ограничения б) Сценаристы не нашли другого способа подсунуть Хармони Спайку в момент его материализации
4. Зачем сценаристы спаривают Спайка и Хармони?
а) они намерены радикально переписать обоих персонажей и сделать их них "комическую разрядку" шоу б) они готовы принести Хармони в жертву гнева фанатов для того, чтобы другие кандидатуры в "девушки Спайка" (Фред, Ева) казались бы фанам более приемлемым
5. Почему в чаше страданий оказалась Mountain Dew?
а) Если это идея Джосса Ведона - чаша страданий окажется настоящей, что бы в ней ни находилось. Ведон не раз говорил, что в его понимании "цель путешествия - в самом путешествии". В соответствии с этим кредо единственное, что имеет значение - то, что Спайк все-таки выпил эту чашу. Можно начинать готовиться к тому, что Спайка снова будут мучить... б) Если это идея Дэвида Фьюри - значит, чаша страданий - всего лишь "оживляж", дешевый предлог для демонстрации драки двух крутых мачо
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From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i...> Date: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:46 pm Subject: [Bloody_Awful] Highlights from W&H -- convo with David Fury!
Hey, all.
After our fairly noneventful message of last night, I have more to report from tonight's party.
Practically the first guest to show up was David Fury, and among the very first to speak to him were Helen, undead, and myself from BAPS and Lisa and bubonic from Sparklies. Bubonic challenged him almost immediately on the subject of our favorite vampire, and how he's been written this year. Fury indicated he was aware of the criticism and he understood that Spike was in a different place at the end of last season with Buffy, but that sweet, sensitive Spike, though very likeable, would quickly become a very boring character to write. He said he loved Spike with attitude, and that the other issue was that Angel and Spike fall back into old patterns when they come together. I will have more on this when it is not 12:30 at night in LA and 3:30 in the morning in my usual time zone, but here are the highlights, mostly direct (or close to direct) quotes. I am hoping to have more complete quotes either tomorrow or, more likely, after I get home.
1. Spike is NOT evil -- he is a good guy. He is -- and this is a direct quote -- "morally superior" to Angel. (!)
2. (Again, close to a direct quote Spike and Angel is the true love story of this season.
3. Spike/Harmony sex in Destiny was Joss' idea. Fury tried to argue against it (*would Spike really do this?*), but Joss insisted that Spike needed a "release" -- it had nothing to do with Buffy. He also said that they wanted it to come across differently than it did, but James is too good at doing sex scenes (he said it a bit differently than that, but that's close, I think).
4. Jeff Bell is writing the finale (Joss is off writing the Firefly movie). DeKnight is most likely writing 20, possibly with DrewGod again. Fury is most likely doing ep 21.
5. The finale is NOT being changed significantly, if at all. Fury said the ending they had already planned as the season finale also worked quite well as a series finale. Didn't sound like Sarah is returning. Fury commented that the only campaign he'd heard of on the Internet concerning the finale was the one where Spike and Buffy end up together. <g> Some girls then started shouting *Angel and Buffy*. At which point Fury went into this very sarcastic riff about how the *real ending* was going to be that Spike dies, Buffy returns, and she and Angel ride off into the sunset together. Which means, that the one thing we can be sure of, imo, is that the show is NOT going to end that way!
6. Fury and DeKnight had a big fight over Destiny. Seems DeKnight wrote it that Angel won the fight. Fury told him that Spike had to win the fight. DeKnight protested that he'd already written it, and Angel won. Fury told him to rewrite it -- that Spike had to win. The episode was all about how Angel had made Spike what he was and how Spike had been put upon all those years, and Spike had to win. At which point, a very cross DeKnight (and this part comes from a later conversation with DeKnight, not from Fury), apparently yelled at Fury *Write it yourself!*
7. Later in the evening, Lisa asked him to please stop writing Spike as being stupid in all his episodes. Fury was very confused, and said when did he write Spike as stupid. Lisa (and I) commented that someone says he's stupid in every episode. He again asked for examples. I said last week in the puppet ep -- he pointed out he didn't write that one. :-) He then added that "Spike isn't stupid. Angel calls him stupid, but that's just because he's jealous of him." (And that is a direct quote.)
8. I suggested at one point that they sell Angel puppets to pay for a season six. Fury laughed and liked that idea. :-) He also told undead that he was indeed the guy under the towel in Smile Time.
Anyway, that's it on the Fury front, which was quite enjoyable, amazingly enough. He was at his most charming. :-)
Also present: DeKnight, Jeff Bell, Drew Goddard, Tim Minear, Julie Benz, Sarah Thompson, Jonathan Woodward, Andy Hallett, *Gru* (I forget the actor's name), and several demons (the demon on a leash; Skip, and one other). Also the guy who played Prince of Lies/Gnarl -- Camden Toy.
I was able to get copies of a couple of scripts at the auction, so will have reports on anything of interest in those in the next few days. The by far biggest price of anything in the auction was the amulet, which went for $7,500! The next highest item was one of DB's jackets, which went for *only* $1,600.
Anyway, it turned out to be an enjoyable evening, despite the absence of many of the *big names*. And it was actually fun talking Spike with Fury -- who'd a thunk it?
Laurie
Похоже, в ближайшее время будут еще отчеты. Уж Бубоник наверняка отчитается...
From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i...> Date: Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:36 am Subject: [Bloody_Awful] A few more comments from last night
Morning, all! (Though I realize it's afternoon at home. :-) )
A few more things I didn't mention last night.
I did speak to Fury about the campaign to save Angel. He sounded very appreciative, but didn't seem to think there was much chance of success. Otoh, someone else spoke to Jeff Bell, and I'm told he wasn't quite as pessimistic (though I didn't speak to Bell about it myself and I should have <kicks self>).
Someone suggested that they all write a reality show about themselves, the writers, somewhat along the lines of what we have sometimes jokingly discussed on BAPS (Mutant Enemy, the series). Goddard and DeK, to whom these comments were addressed, thought this sounded hilarious, and thought the idea of all of them living in the same house, with Fury, would be hysterical.
DeKnight complimented James for totally nailing Damage and carrying the writers on his back. He also complimented Tom Lenk for his excellent performance at the end of Damage, when he stood up to Angel and gave us the non-comic Andrew, for once.
And one more thing I remembered from my conversation with Fury. He commented about the brotherly vibe between Spike and Angel, and that he loved the bit in You're Welcome where Angel and Spike have been squabbling, but then Angel is going to confront Lindsey and Spike insists on going with him. To Fury, that summed up their relationship in a nutshell: two brothers, who fight between themselves like crazy, but when the chips are down, there is no one either would rather have guarding his back than the other. (This led into the comments I mentioned earlier about Spike and Angel being the love story of the season.)
If anyone has any questions about the Soul Purpose or You're Welcome scripts, please ask. I will say that the scene at the beginning of You're Welcome that so annoyed some of us where Spike is pounding on the television and generally acting like a three year old was much more subdued. In the script, Spike yells something about the *stupid plumber* and throws his beer can at the screen, and that's the extent of it.
There's also an interesting scene between Wes and Angel in the car on the way to Cordelia's hospital that I don't remember, but which seems to foreshadow the ending.
Oh, and not that I think any of us doubted it, but it's quite clear in the script that Spike pulled back from biting Cordy before Angel tackled him.
А? Э? Мя? Ква? Объясните, пожалуйста, что под этим подразумевается, иначе бобёр в Питере дышать разучится. Может, они всё-таки хотят сказать, что каждому полагается отдельная love story???
Несколькими минутами позже - проверила на спарклях (вроде там люди знают тонкости английского языка получше меня), слэшеры эту фразу обсасывают и предлагают сделать её названием следующей нити.
Спокойно, love story - это наша очередная метафора, мол, в каждом сезоне должна быть линия развития каких-то отношений, обычно берут мужчина/женщина, так легче зрителя привлечь, а у нас Ангел и Спайк, но, думаю, не в слэшерском контексте, а в контексте вообще развития их отношений.. хм
Меня больше волнует другое - я тоже в 12-й не видела никакой сцены с Уэсом и Ангелом в машине - где сцена, кто скушал???
"Спокойно, Ипполит, спокойно!" Думаю, имеется в виду история братской любви, и ничего более. Буч и Санденс. Тем более что между теми товарищами тоже дэвушка была - и ничего, это не мешало им быть вместе втроем.
Особенно если не объяснять, с какой стати им друг к другу её питать. Два мужика, какую-то (достаточно недолгую) часть своей жизни деливших крышу над головой и девицу, оказываются просто обуреваемы братской любовью спустя лет этак сто. Или авторы хотят сказать, что их отношения похожи на отношения двух братьев? Воля ихняя, но на мой взгляд, на отношения любовников, влюблённых это похоже куда больше. Кто-то мне недавно сказал, что Спайк по отношению к Ангелу ведёт себя так же, как вёл себя по отношению к Баффи сезоне этак в пятом.
И нет, не стоит на мой пост обращать внимания - это просто упоминания о братской любви на меня так действуют - рефлекс.
[> [> [> have you noticed that the original trailer on the WB site -- Simon, 15:06:22 02/22/04 Sun (cache3-blfs.server.ntli.net/62.254.32.6)
has been replaced? No Spike and Angel holding hands. No mention in the trailer that it's written and directed by Joss. То ли они решили, что трейлер выглядит слишком по-слэшерски, то ли им просто захотелось испортить Ведону всю малину
Насчет Фьюри: He chuckled about some of the internet rumors about what happened with the cancelation. Here is what he said REALLY happened. Joss went to Levin and basically said... look, don't leave us hanging until after we wrap the season this time. If you're cancelling us, tell us so everybody can find other work. If not, tell us so we can start working out next season. Levin agreed that he was right, they deserved to know one way or the other, since they'd been around for so long, they deserved that. The next day, they were told that they were canceled. They were NOT expecting that. Jaws dropped. He said that they were all shocked, especially after all the recent good press. So... that's it, that's how it happened.
The show isn't going to be saved, no matter what campaigns pop up (not that the campaigns aren't appreciated). Contrary to popular belief, Angel is one of the cheapest dramas on network t.v., despite the production value and effects. They do a lot with a little. However, the cancellation is still a money issue - a drama is more expensive than a reality show or a sitcom. Cable channels and the "netlets" really can't afford to take it on. The major networks and HBO and their ilk won't either. They might have had a shot with an HBO if the show was only two or three years old, but after five seasons? Won't happen.
A lot of people are sending in postcards saying "Don't have Buffy end up with Angel" or "Don't have Buffy end up with Spike." These people are wasting their money. This issue will not be resolved. "Sarah is not gonna appear on the show," and even if she did, they wouldn't resolve it.
He doesn't know what he'll do after Angel wraps - take some time off, probably, and then maybe write a movie or come up with a new television show. Or, he'll work for some "crappy" show that's on now.
Краткий отчет Бубоник
bubonicplague1348 Laurie pretty much covered the conversation with Fury. He's a great guy, and really willing to listen. He's interested in what the fans have to say. I held my hand out to him and said that I just wanted to let him know that he manages to piss me off more than any other writer, and he took it in the good humor with which the statement was intended. He actually asked what it was about Spike's characterization that bothered me, and I spoke of my problem with the regression after season 7 of BtVS. He was very enthusiastic about the character and said that the problem with it was that Spike would be too boring, as Laurie reported. Yes, he did say that Spike was morally superior to Angel, but qualified that by indicating that Spike was a better person when he was human, and that Angelus' influence on him was corruptive. He adores the Spike/Angel relationship, and spoke about their brotherly vibe and "love story" (giggles ensued). The impression I got from the Sparm sex comment (you know, the "hammer" thing) was that the scene could have been sexier, but JM just went to town with the pounding. It was a lighthearted comment.
I got to meet my man SDK, yay! He's so leetle. He and Goddard are really proud of "Damage", and praised JM to the skies for his acting in that, as well as Tom Lenk. (Goddard says he'll look for any excuse to put Tom in an episode.) SDK wrote the first half and Goddard the second. Yeah, they did seem to enjoy making Fury jokes, and SDK did mention the "fight" about "Destiny" ("Write it your @#%$ self!" was what he said, I think.)
They all seemed very impressed, though not hopeful, regarding the campaign. You could tell they really appreciate it. You know, I think it's beneficial even if the show doesn't get picked up, because itlets people know that these writers and actors are in demand.
ТV Guide дипломатичен: все резкие слова достались читателям, Мэтт Руш комментирует очень сдержанно. Но отзыв, который он выбрал для комментария, говорит за себя сам. http://www.tvguide.com/tv/roush/askmatt/
New every Monday
Due to the volume of questions received, Matt cannot answer all questions or reply via personal email. Angel Question: I'm pretty much in shock. I can't believe that any executive with an ounce of intelligence or creative energy left in their body would agree to a decision like canceling Angel. It has been a solid series with an obsessively loyal fan base for almost five years. It is just beginning to reach its full potential. This has been the most consistent of all the seasons of Angel — and my absolute favorite. Every episode has been meticulously crafted, perfectly blending humor and horror. The characters and stories are the most exciting they have ever been. This season has been a testimony to what television can be if the writing and acting are carefully executed. Angel will never be the show that hordes of morons can turn on when they want to avoid using their brains. Nor should it be. Entire networks were created for those folks. The WB insists upon destroying one of the most challenging, inspired and original hours of TV because it's not mainstream idiocy that people clamor for. What makes the show better than great are its unique characters, epic story lines and truths about redemption, loss, purpose, love, and good and evil. Quality programming like this can not be replicated.
If the WB does in fact end up throwing away one of the finest programs left on TV for another one of their disgusting teen soap operas (i.e. Hormones on Parade), featuring annoyingly pretty people (talentless eye candy) with problems like hair and boys and school and parents who don't understand them, then I quit. I am giving up on network TV completely. I will watch FX for Nip/Tuck, wait for good DVD box sets, and keep my ear to the ground for the next Joss Whedon series, but I can't take any more of this frustration. I feel like I'm stuck in some TV Land-hell dimension where the really original, smart shows are promptly canceled (only after flaunting what we'll be missing), yet the hackneyed, brainless crap is renewed every year and shoved in our faces. And it makes me really sick. Obviously. — Lea
Matt: Readers of this column will not be surprised to learn that my e-mailbag was bursting with literally scores of similar cries of outrage, frustration and sadness over WB's cancellation of Angel (along with a few "told ya so's" from ex-fans who still can't get over the death of Cordelia or who resent Spike or whatever). I appreciate everyone's genuine venting and wish I had the space to share more of these anguished letters. Without question, though, the most common response was: Why????
I wish I had a good answer. WB's argument for canceling Angel has something to do with the network's nebulous future and its need to free up time periods to give a shot to newer series, since so many of its franchises are aging: 7th Heaven, which has one more season to go; Charmed, which many Angel fans are chagrined is getting the renewal Angel was denied; and even Gilmore Girls, which hasn't been the same since Rory left for college. But given WB's post-Smallville track record at developing genre shows (Birds of Prey, Tarzan), I am honestly puzzled why Angel was put on the chopping block right now, before even seeing how the projected Dark Shadows remake (which I'm actually looking forward to) turns out. And if Angel has indeed been sacrificed at the altar of reality TV, a genre WB has been relatively slow to embrace, especially considering its target audience, then that is beyond sad. It's tragic.
I got a number of letters mentioning fan campaigns such as Support Angel and Petition Online's Save Angel. Can't say how much they'll help, but what could it hurt?
Among the many oft-repeated questions: Could UPN pick it up? Will Sarah Michelle Gellar return for the finale? All too early to tell at this point. As for WB floating the option of making a series of TV-movies to continue the franchise, I hope they're serious. There's so much potential, especially if it's possible to combine the Angel and Buffy worlds at some point. That would be the upside to an otherwise very dismaying situation.
Одним словом, Энджелу 6 сезона не быть. Не думаю, что все фанатские письма в защиту шоу смогут исправить положение. Если уж Уорнеры не хотят выкладывать деньги, то никакие кампании в поддержку шоу не сработают. Грустно...
Я тоже думаю, что преждевременно, да и кампании, в основном, направлены на то, чтобы другой канал подхватил шоу, насколько я понимаю ситуацию... Но тяжко все равно!
Елена, если говорить честно - то - да, шансов мало. Насколько я понимаю, Fox, как держатель лицензии, сейчас выставляет товар на рынок. Вряд ли они запустят шоу у себя на канале - у Ведона было там достаточно неприятностей со "Светляком", отношения наверняка натянутые - он даже кино собирается делать не у них, а на Universal. Кто остается? UPN потеряла много денег на "Баффи", они сильно обожглись и вряд ли захотят связываться снова. TNT -- не знаю, не уверена, что их заинтересует жанровый сериал. Проблема в том, что покупатель все равно покупает только "право первой ночи" - франшиза остается у Fox доходы от DVD, календарей, плакатов и проч. стригут они.
Но все равно стоит побороться. Как говаривал сама-знаешь-кто "Fella's gotta try, though. Gotta do what he can." (510 Into the Woods)
David Fury, executive producer of The WB's canceled vampire series Angel, told SCI FI Wire that he was doubtful the show will migrate to UPN next year, though he confirmed that talks are underway. "There were and are conversations going on with UPN," Fury said in an interview at the Wolfram & Hart Annual Revue fan charity ball on Feb. 21.
Fury added, "But in all likelihood they don't have the financial wherewithal to continue the series. It's less expensive than Buffy was for them, but trying to bring a show that's ... going to be going into its sixth season, it's not really financially responsible for them to pick up a show that doesn't really have much of a future beyond one more season." UPN picked up two more seasons of Angel's predecessor series, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, after The WB canceled it.
Fury added that he wasn't optimistic about future Angel movies of the week, which The WB has held out as a possible continuing venue for the show's mythology. "I think there's some time [that] would have to pass before we'd seriously start considering it," Fury said. Angel co-creator Joss Whedon will soon be heavily involved in a proposed feature film based on his canceled SF western series Firefly, Fury added. "Joss' response to that offer was, 'Who's going to make [an Angel movie] for you?' Because he's going to be off doing a motion picture, Firefly, and he'll be consumed with that for some time. And presumably everybody else on the show will have moved on to other projects, although we'd love to continue to work together, and we will try to, I'm sure, in our various capacities. But as far as the movies go, I don't expect you'll hear anything announced about that for another year. And by that time, again, everybody will have moved on, actors and writers. And it just may be a hard thing to actually realize."
As for Angel's series-ending story arc, Fury said, he doubted that Buffy star Sarah Michelle Gellar will be making a guest appearance. "Well, that's entirely up to Sarah, and frankly, I think she's out of the country [in Japan] doing a movie [The Grudge], ... so I'm very doubtful that she's going to be able to come back. And the problem with her coming back anyway is that it sort of invites closure for Spike and/or Angel, which I'm not sure we ever want to do. I think it's better never to quite know. ... Whatever it is, it's not going to be satisfying to somebody. So I think I prefer the idea that both men are still holding out hope and maybe it's something for an Angel movie someday, or a Buffy movie." Angel airs Wednesdays at 9 p.m. ET/PT.
The Cinescape, Fireflyfans and Fireflymovie website all have discovered signs of life in a Firefly movie at Universal Pictures which Joss Whedon has already written the script for.
The studio has quietly added 'Serenity' to the Coming Soon section on the its official website, which is the working title for the film and the name of the crew's vessel. The studio has also already registered the Serenitymovie.com domain name.
The first meeting on the film apparently took place the second week of February and they are targeting a May production start for the big screen version.
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